Replying to comments!....AGAIN and AGAIN!!

This is what Wei wrote:

It's so difficult even trying to read this post not because it's dull (it's actually quite funny) but because I really really really really don't want to stop eating meat :( I mean, I can go without meat for maybe a day or two (I love veg) but not my entire life! And I think I'm not alone in my reluctance to change. Love of meat is what's stopping many people who do know that their meat-eating lifestyle produces much more greenhouse gases to just eating veg. 

What then would you suggest to help persuade more people to stop eating meat (or eat significantly less meat)? 

Well Wei I hope this blog has tried to help persuade people of the environmental cost of meat at least, even though to be honest it was originally created just to investigate the role livestock agriculture and in particular the poo and pee aspect of it all has on our planet. I don't think I can go without meat forever, but as I am to emphasise everything in moderation is acceptable. The amount of meat we eat is purely unsustainable, not individually but as a collective; if we all individually reduce our consumption, the collective will reduce aptly. This video really got to me, but it is mostly focused on the animal cruelty side (it has some very disturbing images so please only watch if you are not easily offended, it is called 'If slaughterhouses had glass walls' by PETA.... the environmental aspect is admittedly small, but as we can see from not just this blog, but every other on the 'anthropocene' it is all interlinked.

On a much lighter note! Food is delicious, rice, pasta, pizza are all non-meat based foods (just because meat can be eaten with them, it does not mean it has to be eaten with them). Like Yulia has suggested pulses are a great source of protein like tofu, even though it fails in comparison to east asian tofu! 

Buying meat from a sustainable farm, the practicalities are hard, but it is a possibility. The cheapest way to make a difference is to probably lobby policy makers (and I said cheap lol!). Again this is not easy in london, but if there is market, a product will soon fill it!

And these three are from Yulia:

Thanks for your reply! So depressing about the battery hens! However, from my life as a student and from being aware of the lifestyle of the rural poor in Russia (compared to whom the British poor are ‘wealthy’, which is why they can afford meat), I don't agree with you that meat is the cheapest source of protein: pulses like chickpeas are cheaper (if you buy the dry ones and then boil). Now we don't theoretically have an excuse for unsustainable consumption! THEORETICALLY! I really hope your blog can convince more of us to change our habits. Though the way it is going, it seems that the 'innovative technology' will have to be the answer. Please check out my blog for innovative land sources, which I will post soon! 

Firstly poverty is relative... there isn't a competition about who is poorer, but I will gladly cede the win to you. Anything is possible, it's hard but one less sausage a day or the vegetarian option at lunch is a step in the right direction. Fruit is a healthy snack alternative... but not really great for meat? vegetable soups are great for this time of year, and minestrone soup is perfect!

No Meat!

Your posts really make me laugh, DanDan! And you are actually starting to convince me to want to eat less meat. 

Nonetheless, I do have the same question as Wei, though: I tried becoming a vegetarian before and as soon as I made that decision, I realized that I can't live without meat! It seems many environmentally-conscious consumers are in the same boat. What do we do? Would getting recipes for the delicious vegetarian Moroccan dishes I once tried help? DanDan? 

As I said in a comment on my blog, you may find this relevant to using biofuels and bacteria to simultaneously tackle eutrophication:

http://www.oilgae.com/energy/nn/b/2009/06/microbial-process-turns-urban-waste.html 

Thanks for this link! It is really relevant to poo! I hope whoever reads this post directs their attention to the link provided above!!

I hope I have answered all the questions... if not MYBAD!!

All the best! :D

Replying to a comment! Again!

This is another reply to another great comment posted on the 'Free the Turkeys! Put down that fork!!!' post made on Christmas Eve! Yulia K wrote:

"I agree, the last video you posted is very insightful, reminding us of the priorities. I like the idea of using pee for P and hope it materilizes, as this will provide us with a renewable source of P, alleviating one of the numerous global problems. However, your last three posts also made me realize something more gloomy, which is that in reality people choose to lead an unsustainable lifestyle, such as choosing to consume meat, and shift the blame for problems such as the global food shortages onto factors like biofuels, for example, which is what I am writing about in my blog. 

It takes 3-4 times more P to support a meat-based diet and also more land to cultivate meat, as land is needed to produce cattle feed too. This means that meat production uses more natural resources, indirectly resulting in the food shortages. If we evaluated what our priorities are and all took responsibility for our own actions, would it not make more sense to lead a less meat-intensive diet, as this would free up the natural resources, such as land and P? 

I find this issue very relevant to biofuels, as decreasing our meat consumption and food waste would likely result in less food shortages and free up more land for activities such as sustainable biofuel cultivation, which should result in GHG emissions savings and greater energy security. Would this not be more useful than leaving all as it is at present i.e. blaming so much on biofuels, for example, as the Gallagher Report (2008) seems to do, preventing the cultivation of biofuels, carrying on with our meat-intensive diet and high P consumption to then realize in the future that food shortages are still increasing as more and more people consume more, P and fossil fuels are running out and we are not prepared for that, and our GHG emissions have not decreased.

While I am also a hypocrite promoting a vegetarian diet here, my point is that I feel that too much emphasis is placed onto blaming industrial activities for the global problems and very little onto us, the consumers, which is not always useful. Therefore I very much agree with you that we should take greater action as citizens (I think this is what you were trying to say, if I understood correctly), even though technological fixes may help."

My Reply:

Thanks for this EPIC post!

You are right; if we did eat less meat, then it would be significantly justifiable to produce more biofuel. However like every other resource or commodity it falls down to the distribution of the meat that is important. If the cost of meat actually took ecosystem service costs into consideration as well as environmental valuations then the cost would increase and there are potentially two outcomes: decrease in demand, reducing consumption; increase in 'innovative' ways at maximising profits to reduce cost production and increase consumption through economies of scale.

The first way would disproportionately affect those who have the lowest incomes as cheap meat is sometime the only source of protein in a diet as most substitutes cost a lot more. The second would lead to further environmental and ecological degradation as intensive farming would become more intensive at the cost of land quality, animal welfare and pollution.

The second point is relevant due to the EU 'wide' ban onBattery hen egg farming. A reported 80 million hens are being 'freed' (some are going to be slaughtered) due to new legislation preventing the use of the current intensive hen cages to produce eggs; a new 'enriched' cage (37% bigger) has to be used.

This results in a just bigger than a sheet of A4 paper space per chicken in a cage. Not that nice! (some info on ending factory farming here).

If we all became concerned consumers and thought about our individual actions then we would achieve a lot more than holistic legislation which is passing the buck of responsibility to people we pay and elect to act for us. I agree with you. Consumption is the problem; and as consumers, we are the ones who have to change OUR habits.

I hope this reply isn’t too bad! I like posting long posts too! :D